Discussion:
Harry Palmer's (Avatar cult) manipulations of Ronald Cools
(too old to reply)
Jeta
2009-05-25 23:44:08 UTC
Permalink
[
Ken Stuczynski asked me to post this. He doesn't read the
newsgroup alt.clearing.avatar this moment.

The Ronald Cools video eulogy he mentions can be found at:

http://vimeo.com/4825838

The header of the article is mine.

Jeta
]



It can't be avoided to mention that certain people have already
shamefully used his death as a weapon to demoralize and defame
myself and others who -- like Ron -- spoke out about what they
knew and believed. But it is my hope this testimony speaks for
itself and nothing more needs be said. I was even restrained in
not tainting my words about Ronald with details that most
assuredly would incriminate those who deserve it.

I took me a while to settle into doing this partly because I was
apprehensive, knowing that sick minds will pick every word and
detail of it apart the moment it hits their screen, with any
concocted creations imaginable (and unimaginable) to spew against
me. Their opinions -- sometimes mouthfuls of dung, sometimes with
a silver tongue -- are forever unfounded and with only this
purpose: to hurt and deceive. I'm not playing that game. It has
always been my natural inclination to make sure truth is spoken
next to each lie, but I could spend the rest of my life debunking
every slander, to little benefit -- and that diversion is likely
their dark intention. I realize more than ever none of it is
worthy of response and best left to rot in their own reputations.
I will not be so distracted from doing more positive things in the
world. If any of you wish to say a word in my defense, I thank
you for your gesture, but it is not required.

-----------------------

So if anyone asks the details of whom and what went on that I
chose not to explain in the video, let them find this post.

I didn't visit the newsgroup for some time, and don't know if
anyone was aware of the phone and email communications between
Palmer and Ron a while back, which was the real reason he backed
off from being a critic for a while. (I will neither confirm nor
deny records of the conversations or their form, but pieces and
mentions of them can be found in some old posts as well as what I
write below ...)

(1) Rough summary: According to Ronald, Palmer initiated phone
contact with him to buddy up with him, talking of gardening,
sending him seeds, etc. in part to convince him to take down the
course materials from public view. The tactic was to "negotiate"
over what lies and defamatory rumors Palmer would remove from his
report about Ron if he complied with this and other demands. He
also received directly from Palmer a news article interviewing
Ronald that was "anonymously" -- one posted a day or two later
when Ronald refused to comply further. (So yes, between this and
other things, we know within reason who some of the anonymous
Avatar posters are.) The article, which was an interview about
the difficulty of his lifestyle, wasn't defamatory by itself, but
Palmer's use of it was a clear tactic to embarrass him, at least
from his worldly perspective.

(This whole thing is ironic considering Eldon Braun is repeatedly
accused of blackmail on the basis that he offered to cease
criticism when other victims were compensated, and at no benefit
to him nonetheless.)

There is a lot more people don't know, some of which I may never
share, and some I may choose to tell. This is the rest that I
will tell for now:

(2) Ronald and someone else related to Avatar created a joke email
with sexual puns and explicit images. He sent them to a handful
of masters who had harassed him personally for speaking out,
particularly those who attacked his homosexuality. The other
person -- not one of the "usual suspects" and whose identity may
only be known to me -- was the one who sent it out through the
whole network, using a master email list that several critics have
copies of. If anything, Ronald claimed more responsibility than
he should for that action, but the detail in Palmers report was
still a lie.

Also note that according to Ron, one WAS sent to Wayne McMahon by
him, using only the email address he uses on ACA. When I
confronted him with Wayne's questionable truth about his children
being exposed to the email, and another master assuming it was
sent to them directly instead of an over-the-shoulder mishap at
the McMahon household, Ronald said he wasn't even aware of such an
accusation. In fact, there is no reason to believe anyone even
has those children's email addresses. In other words, it was a
stretch of an unlikely possibility to buy into a purposeful
insinuation painting a lie of the lowest sort, fear-mongering
Ronald into something he was not. But this kind of despicable
smearing doesn't end with Palmer's plausible deniability through
supposedly loose-cannon Wayne, as you will find in point (4).

(3) When Ronald posted a link to a gay hookup site some months
ago, some assumed it was just porn-spamming the newsgroup, used as
some proof toward the party line about him being true. What he
never told anyone (except me) was that the page of the site linked
to originally showcased a fake profile of Wayne -- it was harmless
tongue-in-cheek justice over his well-established left-handed
homophobic hate speech. No one got the joke because his profile
was either deleted or moved off that main page too soon by newer
profiles. But the hate speech against Ronald spun and spun for
its own sake, and like so many other things, those sympathetic to
Avatar were eager to accept it at a false face value, not knowing
or caring about the truth behind it.

(4) Lastly and most importantly, from both my research and
examining Ronald's explanations, it is evident Ron was never
thrown out of any course. He was refused taking further Avatar
courses for a simple reason: it wouldn't cure his depression and
that didn't bode well for other masters. Apparently being unhappy
is not allowed. Maybe they were concerned about his frankness
about suicide, and that would be reasonable if they had the
integrity to be up front about it. But Palmer refused to answer
requests for explanation when direct contact was attempted.

The crux of the matter is that Palmer's accusation about sexual
harassment toward male minors -- protecting himself from
accountability with the word "alleged" -- came only AFTER Ronald
became vocal as a critic.

Furthermore, When Ronald questioned Palmer directly (when they
were communicating later by phone) about who was accusing him,
Palmer reluctantly blurted a certain master's name (withheld
here). However, that master was confronted and neither she nor
anyone she knew had any idea what "Harry" was talking about.

Now this is hardly the enlightened, humble, generous, kind man
image "Harry" may have worked a lifetime to convincingly sell
people, is it? It is, however, the man many have come to know from
so many "non-aligned" sources, established further by the level of
depravity found in certain posts here and on AO over the years in
their 'anti-response' to real issues through unjustifiable
personal attacks. I'm sure that will continue to build the case in
the future.

(It is also no wonder his and Avra's public correspondence is
shielded at nearly all times by a layer of identities -- ambiguous
corporate representatives, privately-understood pseudonyms, or
anonymous hints. Even they can't be unaware of the embarrassment
and confusion and legal repercussions it would cause if they put
their names on such things, especially with those who might not
yet be to the point of believing everything they are told.)

--------------------------

So for now their game is thus: I am being ignorantly and
intentionally pegged as an accomplice in his suicide when
ironically it was people in the AVATAR "network" who threatened
his life and even encourages the suicide of critics when it suits
them. No one will blot out the record of that, and the more they
attack me (or his memory) with such lies, the more likely they
will find the truth published elsewhere to set it right by any
number of people. Call it karma's "discouragement drill", if you
please.

And like I said, there is much more that has not been made public
(with externally archived copies for safe keeping), but I'm as
tired as Ronald was with the whole thing. Enough truth is already
out there to hold responsible those who pretend it isn't there or
suppress it. People like the new people here (or Paul if he ever
shows up) are welcome to carry on with it, but that is where I
retire.

I may not have earned the merit badge of having a report or
briefing like Ronald, but I still expect that my name will be
dragged through the mud at least a bit more as I fade away from
this topic. I am confident it is self-evident to all that their
defamation is ONLY because I spoke unacceptable truths a bit too
openly around people with no ethics and no conscience. Such
things will continue to condemn them, speaking in favor of decent
people like Ronald and I -- It just makes the real score more
apparent to anyone willing to open their eyes and pay attention.
We've got their number, and it proves itself true over and over
with every post they make. And not needing to do any more on my
part, I will happily live with that.

That is all.

Peace to those who will have it,

Ken
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
How to obtain the Avatar courses for free:
http://www.avatarcult.info
Wayne
2009-05-26 09:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Well isn't this a bunch of crap. Mr. Stuczynski chooses to post
something like this but it's inconvenient to read the replies?

Mr. Stuczynski apparently lacks a great deal of self-honesty. If he
did, he would recognise his protestations of being a simple and humble
observer alternated with vile character attacks are a passive agression.
If he would either declare his alliances openly or, alternatively,
retire, and he might get more respect from both sides here.

I am, however, pleased he had the decency to post the kindly eulogy for
Ronald Cools only a day or so after I pointed out the lack thereof.
That's better treatment than Manfred got, other than the few kind words
from Gale.

This isn't Scientology, guys, where the sick and the dying are put on a
bus out of town in order to disallow any suggestion that Scientology
doesn't work. Ken, do you really believe that the Europeans here who
had daily contact with Ronald didn't know what had happened to him? Or
didn't know how to dial Amsterdam from Amsterdam?

Also, how long was Manfred Bauer dead before anyone mentioned it?

These guys are treated like pawns by Eldon and Jeta. When pawns die,
they become useless and an embarrassment.

I like the words of Abe Lincoln who said "I care not much for a man's
religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." I feel at least
that strongly about how people or a society treat the mentally ill.

I may have often loudly disagreed with both men but I have enough
respect to pray they rest in peace.

It will always be my opinion that Ronald, friendless, lonely, mentally
ill, felt he had made a friend in those who subsequently used him
unmercifully to do the dirty work they were afraid to do because of
possible consequences. Ronald even bragged of this, that he had no
money, no job, no friends, and couldn't be sued because he had nothing.

Ronald tried to back down, to get out of this ugly game. He even
apologised publicly for his acts against Harry ad Avatar.

Nevertheless, his defamation of various good people on as big a forum as
the World Wide Web cannot go unanswered and I did answer, primarily by
reposting Ronald's own words. If you're going to post on one forum that
you have mental problems and that you have a record of obsessive libel
and ridicule of public figures, others should at least be able to view
what else he has posted so they have some basis for determining his
credibility. Ronald, unfortunately, had little.

Ken, you are very misinformed concerning the number of times Ronald sent
gay porn for the purpose of upsetting, and of the MANY e-mails he sent
me with improper suggestions. If you have truthfully reported what
Ronald said to you, then he lied to you or he just was in some place of
denial. Ronald lied easily and often.

And if you think that putting up a link about me that implies that I am
engaged in homosexual acts is a tiny little joke, perhaps you wouldn't
mind if someone did it to you. I'm sure your wife, kids, your folks,
church group, would find it a harmless howl.

I'm frankly astonished that Ken Stuczynski, reportedly a college
graduate, is inclined to believe that posting Ronald's own words is a
vicious attack. But Ronald posting lies, libels, complete fabrications
about myself, Harry Palmer, and other persons is harmless joking.

And I'm frankly astonished that Ken is so quick to assume that Harry's
communications with Ronald were anything other than trying to help
Ronald. My own knowledge and experience with Harry is that he walks the
walk. When he speaks of kindness and compassion it's because he lives
that way.

I consider Ken Stuczynski to be a fool and a useful fool to guys like
Eldon and Jeta.

Nevertheless, the eulogy was nice enough and a kind gesture, and I have
no intention of hunting down or further exposing Ken or committing
whatever other acts Ken feels would give him any more importance.

As for Ronald, he's gone now and his life is no more. Like Ken, and
like myself, Ronald did good things in life and he did some bad ones.
Just like Ken, I hope Ronald's transition was without undue pain and
that he find rest and peace. And that those who remember think a kind
thought of him from time to time.

May God love you, Ronald.

You too, Ken.

------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jeta
[
Ken Stuczynski asked me to post this. He doesn't read the
newsgroup alt.clearing.avatar this moment.
http://vimeo.com/4825838
The header of the article is mine.
Jeta
]
It can't be avoided to mention that certain people have already
shamefully used his death as a weapon to demoralize and defame
myself and others who -- like Ron -- spoke out about what they
knew and believed. But it is my hope this testimony speaks for
itself and nothing more needs be said. I was even restrained in
not tainting my words about Ronald with details that most
assuredly would incriminate those who deserve it.
I took me a while to settle into doing this partly because I was
apprehensive, knowing that sick minds will pick every word and
detail of it apart the moment it hits their screen, with any
concocted creations imaginable (and unimaginable) to spew against
me. Their opinions -- sometimes mouthfuls of dung, sometimes with
a silver tongue -- are forever unfounded and with only this
purpose: to hurt and deceive. I'm not playing that game. It has
always been my natural inclination to make sure truth is spoken
next to each lie, but I could spend the rest of my life debunking
every slander, to little benefit -- and that diversion is likely
their dark intention. I realize more than ever none of it is
worthy of response and best left to rot in their own reputations.
I will not be so distracted from doing more positive things in the
world. If any of you wish to say a word in my defense, I thank
you for your gesture, but it is not required.
-----------------------
So if anyone asks the details of whom and what went on that I
chose not to explain in the video, let them find this post.
I didn't visit the newsgroup for some time, and don't know if
anyone was aware of the phone and email communications between
Palmer and Ron a while back, which was the real reason he backed
off from being a critic for a while. (I will neither confirm nor
deny records of the conversations or their form, but pieces and
mentions of them can be found in some old posts as well as what I
write below ...)
(1) Rough summary: According to Ronald, Palmer initiated phone
contact with him to buddy up with him, talking of gardening,
sending him seeds, etc. in part to convince him to take down the
course materials from public view. The tactic was to "negotiate"
over what lies and defamatory rumors Palmer would remove from his
report about Ron if he complied with this and other demands. He
also received directly from Palmer a news article interviewing
Ronald that was "anonymously" -- one posted a day or two later
when Ronald refused to comply further. (So yes, between this and
other things, we know within reason who some of the anonymous
Avatar posters are.) The article, which was an interview about
the difficulty of his lifestyle, wasn't defamatory by itself, but
Palmer's use of it was a clear tactic to embarrass him, at least
from his worldly perspective.
(This whole thing is ironic considering Eldon Braun is repeatedly
accused of blackmail on the basis that he offered to cease
criticism when other victims were compensated, and at no benefit
to him nonetheless.)
There is a lot more people don't know, some of which I may never
share, and some I may choose to tell. This is the rest that I
(2) Ronald and someone else related to Avatar created a joke email
with sexual puns and explicit images. He sent them to a handful
of masters who had harassed him personally for speaking out,
particularly those who attacked his homosexuality. The other
person -- not one of the "usual suspects" and whose identity may
only be known to me -- was the one who sent it out through the
whole network, using a master email list that several critics have
copies of. If anything, Ronald claimed more responsibility than
he should for that action, but the detail in Palmers report was
still a lie.
Also note that according to Ron, one WAS sent to Wayne McMahon by
him, using only the email address he uses on ACA. When I
confronted him with Wayne's questionable truth about his children
being exposed to the email, and another master assuming it was
sent to them directly instead of an over-the-shoulder mishap at
the McMahon household, Ronald said he wasn't even aware of such an
accusation. In fact, there is no reason to believe anyone even
has those children's email addresses. In other words, it was a
stretch of an unlikely possibility to buy into a purposeful
insinuation painting a lie of the lowest sort, fear-mongering
Ronald into something he was not. But this kind of despicable
smearing doesn't end with Palmer's plausible deniability through
supposedly loose-cannon Wayne, as you will find in point (4).
(3) When Ronald posted a link to a gay hookup site some months
ago, some assumed it was just porn-spamming the newsgroup, used as
some proof toward the party line about him being true. What he
never told anyone (except me) was that the page of the site linked
to originally showcased a fake profile of Wayne -- it was harmless
tongue-in-cheek justice over his well-established left-handed
homophobic hate speech. No one got the joke because his profile
was either deleted or moved off that main page too soon by newer
profiles. But the hate speech against Ronald spun and spun for
its own sake, and like so many other things, those sympathetic to
Avatar were eager to accept it at a false face value, not knowing
or caring about the truth behind it.
(4) Lastly and most importantly, from both my research and
examining Ronald's explanations, it is evident Ron was never
thrown out of any course. He was refused taking further Avatar
courses for a simple reason: it wouldn't cure his depression and
that didn't bode well for other masters. Apparently being unhappy
is not allowed. Maybe they were concerned about his frankness
about suicide, and that would be reasonable if they had the
integrity to be up front about it. But Palmer refused to answer
requests for explanation when direct contact was attempted.
The crux of the matter is that Palmer's accusation about sexual
harassment toward male minors -- protecting himself from
accountability with the word "alleged" -- came only AFTER Ronald
became vocal as a critic.
Furthermore, When Ronald questioned Palmer directly (when they
were communicating later by phone) about who was accusing him,
Palmer reluctantly blurted a certain master's name (withheld
here). However, that master was confronted and neither she nor
anyone she knew had any idea what "Harry" was talking about.
Now this is hardly the enlightened, humble, generous, kind man
image "Harry" may have worked a lifetime to convincingly sell
people, is it? It is, however, the man many have come to know from
so many "non-aligned" sources, established further by the level of
depravity found in certain posts here and on AO over the years in
their 'anti-response' to real issues through unjustifiable
personal attacks. I'm sure that will continue to build the case in
the future.
(It is also no wonder his and Avra's public correspondence is
shielded at nearly all times by a layer of identities -- ambiguous
corporate representatives, privately-understood pseudonyms, or
anonymous hints. Even they can't be unaware of the embarrassment
and confusion and legal repercussions it would cause if they put
their names on such things, especially with those who might not
yet be to the point of believing everything they are told.)
--------------------------
So for now their game is thus: I am being ignorantly and
intentionally pegged as an accomplice in his suicide when
ironically it was people in the AVATAR "network" who threatened
his life and even encourages the suicide of critics when it suits
them. No one will blot out the record of that, and the more they
attack me (or his memory) with such lies, the more likely they
will find the truth published elsewhere to set it right by any
number of people. Call it karma's "discouragement drill", if you
please.
And like I said, there is much more that has not been made public
(with externally archived copies for safe keeping), but I'm as
tired as Ronald was with the whole thing. Enough truth is already
out there to hold responsible those who pretend it isn't there or
suppress it. People like the new people here (or Paul if he ever
shows up) are welcome to carry on with it, but that is where I
retire.
I may not have earned the merit badge of having a report or
briefing like Ronald, but I still expect that my name will be
dragged through the mud at least a bit more as I fade away from
this topic. I am confident it is self-evident to all that their
defamation is ONLY because I spoke unacceptable truths a bit too
openly around people with no ethics and no conscience. Such
things will continue to condemn them, speaking in favor of decent
people like Ronald and I -- It just makes the real score more
apparent to anyone willing to open their eyes and pay attention.
We've got their number, and it proves itself true over and over
with every post they make. And not needing to do any more on my
part, I will happily live with that.
That is all.
Peace to those who will have it,
Ken
-----------------------------------------------------------------
t***@live.com
2009-05-26 22:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Well isn't this a bunch of crap.  Mr. Stuczynski chooses to post
something like this but it's inconvenient to read the replies?
Mr. Stuczynski apparently lacks a great deal of self-honesty.  If he
did, he would recognise his protestations of being a simple and humble
observer alternated with vile character attacks are a passive agression.
  If he would either declare his alliances openly or, alternatively,
retire, and he might get more respect from both sides here.
I am, however, pleased he had the decency to post the kindly eulogy for
Ronald Cools only a day or so after I pointed out the lack thereof.
That's better treatment than Manfred got, other than the few kind words
from Gale.
This isn't Scientology, guys, where the sick and the dying are put on a
bus out of town in order to disallow any suggestion that Scientology
doesn't work.  Ken, do you really believe that the Europeans here who
had daily contact with Ronald didn't know what had happened to him?  Or
   didn't know how to dial Amsterdam from Amsterdam?
Also, how long was Manfred Bauer dead before anyone mentioned it?
Wayne,

Manfred left his son a list of names to notify incase of his death.
He notified us all within a few short hours. Well, the death of his
body since there really is no death. I'm sorry, but you and Harry
were never on that list so you were not notified. He died about 10pm
Australian time and was in my presence immediately. I didn't quite
understand what had happened but knew that I was surrounded by his
love and light. It was amazing like nothing I had ever experienced
before. That was about 10am here. His son notified us that evening/
next morning his time. He died on the Fourth of July his favorite
holiday. It was a tremendous symbol of freedom for him.

Gale
Eldon
2009-05-26 10:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeta
[
Ken Stuczynski asked me to post this. He doesn't read the
newsgroup alt.clearing.avatar this moment.
http://vimeo.com/4825838
The header of the article is mine.
Jeta
]
It can't be avoided to mention that certain people have already
shamefully used his death as a weapon to demoralize and defame
myself and others who -- like Ron -- spoke out about what they
knew and believed. But it is my hope this testimony speaks for
itself and nothing more needs be said. I was even restrained in
not tainting my words about Ronald with details that most
assuredly would incriminate those who deserve it.
I took me a while to settle into doing this partly because I was
apprehensive, knowing that sick minds will pick every word and
detail of it apart the moment it hits their screen, with any
concocted creations imaginable (and unimaginable) to spew against
me. Their opinions -- sometimes mouthfuls of dung, sometimes with
a silver tongue -- are forever unfounded and with only this
purpose: to hurt and deceive. I'm not playing that game. It has
always been my natural inclination to make sure truth is spoken
next to each lie, but I could spend the rest of my life debunking
every slander, to little benefit -- and that diversion is likely
their dark intention. I realize more than ever none of it is
worthy of response and best left to rot in their own reputations.
I will not be so distracted from doing more positive things in the
world. If any of you wish to say a word in my defense, I thank
you for your gesture, but it is not required.
-----------------------
So if anyone asks the details of whom and what went on that I
chose not to explain in the video, let them find this post.
I didn't visit the newsgroup for some time, and don't know if
anyone was aware of the phone and email communications between
Palmer and Ron a while back, which was the real reason he backed
off from being a critic for a while. (I will neither confirm nor
deny records of the conversations or their form, but pieces and
mentions of them can be found in some old posts as well as what I
write below ...)
(1) Rough summary: According to Ronald, Palmer initiated phone
contact with him to buddy up with him, talking of gardening,
sending him seeds, etc. in part to convince him to take down the
course materials from public view. The tactic was to "negotiate"
over what lies and defamatory rumors Palmer would remove from his
report about Ron if he complied with this and other demands. He
also received directly from Palmer a news article interviewing
Ronald that was "anonymously" -- one posted a day or two later
when Ronald refused to comply further. (So yes, between this and
other things, we know within reason who some of the anonymous
Avatar posters are.) The article, which was an interview about
the difficulty of his lifestyle, wasn't defamatory by itself, but
Palmer's use of it was a clear tactic to embarrass him, at least
from his worldly perspective.
(This whole thing is ironic considering Eldon Braun is repeatedly
accused of blackmail on the basis that he offered to cease
criticism when other victims were compensated, and at no benefit
to him nonetheless.)
There is a lot more people don't know, some of which I may never
share, and some I may choose to tell. This is the rest that I
(2) Ronald and someone else related to Avatar created a joke email
with sexual puns and explicit images. He sent them to a handful
of masters who had harassed him personally for speaking out,
particularly those who attacked his homosexuality. The other
person -- not one of the "usual suspects" and whose identity may
only be known to me -- was the one who sent it out through the
whole network, using a master email list that several critics have
copies of. If anything, Ronald claimed more responsibility than
he should for that action, but the detail in Palmers report was
still a lie.
Also note that according to Ron, one WAS sent to Wayne McMahon by
him, using only the email address he uses on ACA. When I
confronted him with Wayne's questionable truth about his children
being exposed to the email, and another master assuming it was
sent to them directly instead of an over-the-shoulder mishap at
the McMahon household, Ronald said he wasn't even aware of such an
accusation. In fact, there is no reason to believe anyone even
has those children's email addresses. In other words, it was a
stretch of an unlikely possibility to buy into a purposeful
insinuation painting a lie of the lowest sort, fear-mongering
Ronald into something he was not. But this kind of despicable
smearing doesn't end with Palmer's plausible deniability through
supposedly loose-cannon Wayne, as you will find in point (4).
(3) When Ronald posted a link to a gay hookup site some months
ago, some assumed it was just porn-spamming the newsgroup, used as
some proof toward the party line about him being true. What he
never told anyone (except me) was that the page of the site linked
to originally showcased a fake profile of Wayne -- it was harmless
tongue-in-cheek justice over his well-established left-handed
homophobic hate speech. No one got the joke because his profile
was either deleted or moved off that main page too soon by newer
profiles. But the hate speech against Ronald spun and spun for
its own sake, and like so many other things, those sympathetic to
Avatar were eager to accept it at a false face value, not knowing
or caring about the truth behind it.
(4) Lastly and most importantly, from both my research and
examining Ronald's explanations, it is evident Ron was never
thrown out of any course. He was refused taking further Avatar
courses for a simple reason: it wouldn't cure his depression and
that didn't bode well for other masters. Apparently being unhappy
is not allowed. Maybe they were concerned about his frankness
about suicide, and that would be reasonable if they had the
integrity to be up front about it. But Palmer refused to answer
requests for explanation when direct contact was attempted.
The crux of the matter is that Palmer's accusation about sexual
harassment toward male minors -- protecting himself from
accountability with the word "alleged" -- came only AFTER Ronald
became vocal as a critic.
Furthermore, When Ronald questioned Palmer directly (when they
were communicating later by phone) about who was accusing him,
Palmer reluctantly blurted a certain master's name (withheld
here). However, that master was confronted and neither she nor
anyone she knew had any idea what "Harry" was talking about.
Now this is hardly the enlightened, humble, generous, kind man
image "Harry" may have worked a lifetime to convincingly sell
people, is it? It is, however, the man many have come to know from
so many "non-aligned" sources, established further by the level of
depravity found in certain posts here and on AO over the years in
their 'anti-response' to real issues through unjustifiable
personal attacks. I'm sure that will continue to build the case in
the future.
(It is also no wonder his and Avra's public correspondence is
shielded at nearly all times by a layer of identities -- ambiguous
corporate representatives, privately-understood pseudonyms, or
anonymous hints. Even they can't be unaware of the embarrassment
and confusion and legal repercussions it would cause if they put
their names on such things, especially with those who might not
yet be to the point of believing everything they are told.)
--------------------------
So for now their game is thus: I am being ignorantly and
intentionally pegged as an accomplice in his suicide when
ironically it was people in the AVATAR "network" who threatened
his life and even encourages the suicide of critics when it suits
them. No one will blot out the record of that, and the more they
attack me (or his memory) with such lies, the more likely they
will find the truth published elsewhere to set it right by any
number of people. Call it karma's "discouragement drill", if you
please.
And like I said, there is much more that has not been made public
(with externally archived copies for safe keeping), but I'm as
tired as Ronald was with the whole thing. Enough truth is already
out there to hold responsible those who pretend it isn't there or
suppress it. People like the new people here (or Paul if he ever
shows up) are welcome to carry on with it, but that is where I
retire.
I may not have earned the merit badge of having a report or
briefing like Ronald, but I still expect that my name will be
dragged through the mud at least a bit more as I fade away from
this topic. I am confident it is self-evident to all that their
defamation is ONLY because I spoke unacceptable truths a bit too
openly around people with no ethics and no conscience. Such
things will continue to condemn them, speaking in favor of decent
people like Ronald and I -- It just makes the real score more
apparent to anyone willing to open their eyes and pay attention.
We've got their number, and it proves itself true over and over
with every post they make. And not needing to do any more on my
part, I will happily live with that.
That is all.
Peace to those who will have it,
Thanks for writing this, Ken (and to Jeta for posting it). I heard the
same descriptions of these events. Hari is prone to lash out with
improbable accusations, threats and rumors when his motives are
questioned or criticized. This vicious, compulsive behavior belies his
New Age "gentle philosopher" facade every time.

Ooooh, look! It's a new multi-lingual European portal website.
http://www.avatarepc.eu/

Just in time for the major damage about to be done to the mother
cult.

BTW, what do the Masters have to say about the Scientology connection.
Surely most of them are well aware of it by now.
Post by Jeta
Ken
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
http://www.avatarcult.info
a***@adelphia.net
2009-05-26 13:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Jeta for posting Ken's sharing of Ronald's experiences and
the eulogy.

I think Ken tried his best to stay neutral and to take care in
presenting what he said.

It's hard to know, even with having direct communications, what
anothers intentions and motives are (were). Most of the time I want
to believe the best about people.

I had often wondered what had happened when Ronald changed and
denounced his alliance with the critics of Avatar. I have no way of
getting into Harry's head and knowing what his intentions were. Was
he manipulating Ronald for his own gain, for the betterment of mankind
or was it simply to help a fellow traveler?

I want to believe it was to help a fellow traveler. I have probably
had more written communications with Harry of anyone posting on this
newsgroup. Including Wayne. From these communications I've formed an
opinion of Harry, a personal opinion of the man. Is this opinion an
accurate description of who he is? I doubt it, Harry just wore the
costume I wanted him to wear.

So you see Wayne, Ronald just wore the costume you wanted him to
wear. You saw him as you have posted. And Harry wears the costume
you would like him to wear. You say you know the man, but what you
really know is what you haven seen through your filters, and your
selective recall. If you want to see the best in people, you will.
If you want to see the worst, you will.

I've asked the question previously (of Wayne) what did he do? When I
talk about advanced abilities this is one of the things I have
experimented with. I have taken those beliefs (opinions) I have about
someone and changed them. By doing that the person shows up
differently (atleast in my reality).

I have no doubt Wayne has the ability to do this. Did he do this? Or
has he continually saw the worse, dead agent the critics that post
here and made them more solid in their opposition?

Oh well,

My sincere hope is that Ronald has found the peace he was seeking.

grace
Eldon
2009-05-26 13:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@adelphia.net
Thank you Jeta for posting Ken's sharing of Ronald's experiences and
the eulogy.
I think Ken tried his best to stay neutral and to take care in
presenting what he said.
It's hard to know, even with having direct communications, what
anothers intentions and motives are (were). Most of the time I want
to believe the best about people.
I had often wondered what had happened when Ronald changed and
denounced his alliance with the critics of Avatar. I have no way of
getting into Harry's head and knowing what his intentions were. Was
he manipulating Ronald for his own gain, for the betterment of mankind
or was it simply to help a fellow traveler?
I want to believe it was to help a fellow traveler. I have probably
had more written communications with Harry of anyone posting on this
newsgroup. Including Wayne. From these communications I've formed an
opinion of Harry, a personal opinion of the man. Is this opinion an
accurate description of who he is? I doubt it, Harry just wore the
costume I wanted him to wear.
So you see Wayne, Ronald just wore the costume you wanted him to
wear. You saw him as you have posted. And Harry wears the costume
you would like him to wear. You say you know the man, but what you
really know is what you haven seen through your filters, and your
selective recall. If you want to see the best in people, you will.
If you want to see the worst, you will.
Dear, there is some truth to this. But you are gonna have some serious
disillusionment about "costumes" when it comes to the facades put up
by psychopathic con artists. They're on stage all the time, and they
have spent a great deal of time and energy learning how to deceive and
cheat people. That is their whole purpose in life. Hari's bit about
people adapting their costumes to suit your filters is largely double
talk designed to keep you from checking out that man behind the
curtain. ;-)
hat is
Post by a***@adelphia.net
I've asked the question previously (of Wayne) what did he do? When I
talk about advanced abilities this is one of the things I have
experimented with. I have taken those beliefs (opinions) I have about
someone and changed them. By doing that the person shows up
differently (atleast in my reality).
I have no doubt Wayne has the ability to do this. Did he do this? Or
has he continually saw the worse, dead agent the critics that post
here and made them more solid in their opposition?
Oh well,
My sincere hope is that Ronald has found the peace he was seeking.
grace
a***@adelphia.net
2009-05-26 15:07:42 UTC
Permalink
The question then becomes are you, you? or the costumes others have
asked you to wear?

Eldon, is it possible long ago Harry asked you to wear the costume of
Avatar Basher?

Does he need you to be who you are? Or do you need him to be who he
is?

And yes some people are very good at wearing costumes that others want
them to wear.

Desparate people are easy.

grace
Eldon
2009-05-26 15:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@adelphia.net
The question then becomes are you, you? or the costumes others have
asked you to wear?
Eldon, is it possible long ago Harry asked you to wear the costume of
Avatar Basher?
If he did, he sure inserted a lot of resistance into the equation. For
example, when he sent me some proposed legal agreement to have a
"cooling off" period of 30 days -- during which neither party would
bash the other -- I said sure and signed it. Shortly thereafter,
someone posing as a private investigator who sounded a lot like Hari
started making phone calls to my former address conducting an
"investigation" about child sexual abuse. Someone who sounded a lot
like Hari also did that same sort of thing to Ronald Cools.

Those are called Scientology "Fair Game" tactics where devotees INVENT
dirt about people to "ruin them utterly." As INSTRUCTED by L. Ron
Hubbard in official church policy.

And that's one of the main reasons the mother cult is in such big
trouble in Europe. They are being prosecuted for following OFFICIAL
church policy, which is criminal on its face.

LOLOL. Have a nice ride, Hari. I'm gonna fuck you bigtime over the
next several months.
Post by a***@adelphia.net
Does he need you to be who you are? Or do you need him to be who he
is?
And yes some people are very good at wearing costumes that others want
them to wear.
Desparate people are easy.
grace
a***@adelphia.net
2009-05-26 22:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eldon
If he did, he sure inserted a lot of resistance into the equation. For
example, when he sent me some proposed legal agreement to have a
"cooling off" period of 30 days -- during which neither party would
bash the other -- I said sure and signed it. Shortly thereafter,
someone posing as a private investigator who sounded a lot like Hari
started making phone calls to my former address conducting an
"investigation" about child sexual abuse. Someone who sounded a lot
like Hari also did that same sort of thing to Ronald Cools.
Just out of curiousity do you remember when this happened? Before the
trial?

I wonder if it wasn't someone else. Someone whom didn't want a
"cooling off" period.

I've often wonder, if Wayne was so important, then how come Harry
didn't invite him to any of the court trials.

It would have been interesting to sit down and compare notes with you.
Too bad I threw out all of my stuff.

You've often hinted that Wayne was the one who screwed up any chance
of sitting down to work out a settlement before the shit hit the fan.
I wonder did he think he was running the game back then?

Well you can't go back and change the past. I do know that I've
learned the lesson to be more careful in whom I pick for friends and
teachers.

Wayne says, "It's worse than insane. It's blatant, twisted, mindless
malice."

That about sums up how I feel about most of your communication here
and elsewhere. I don't think you can help yourself and because of
that I feel sorry for you. Instead of pointing the finger at Eldon,
how about telling us what YOU did. Have you taken those post off of
AvatarOverdrive, you know the ones that Harry put up.

grace
Eldon
2009-05-27 08:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@adelphia.net
Post by Eldon
If he did, he sure inserted a lot of resistance into the equation. For
example, when he sent me some proposed legal agreement to have a
"cooling off" period of 30 days -- during which neither party would
bash the other -- I said sure and signed it. Shortly thereafter,
someone posing as a private investigator who sounded a lot like Hari
started making phone calls to my former address conducting an
"investigation" about child sexual abuse. Someone who sounded a lot
like Hari also did that same sort of thing to Ronald Cools.
Just out of curiousity do you remember when this happened? Before the
trial?
Well before. It was when Hari was getting all bent out of shape about
things that were said on the Examine 2000 board -- by
Gale, Nan Karl and a bunch of other people as well as myself.
Post by a***@adelphia.net
I wonder if it wasn't someone else. Someone whom didn't want a
"cooling off" period.
I've often wonder, if Wayne was so important, then how come Harry
didn't invite him to any of the court trials.
It would have been interesting to sit down and compare notes with you.
Too bad I threw out all of my stuff.
You've often hinted that Wayne was the one who screwed up any chance
of sitting down to work out a settlement before the shit hit the fan.
I wonder did he think he was running the game back then?
Well you can't go back and change the past. I do know that I've
learned the lesson to be more careful in whom I pick for friends and
teachers.
Wayne says, "It's worse than insane. It's blatant, twisted, mindless
malice."
That about sums up how I feel about most of your communication here
and elsewhere. I don't think you can help yourself and because of
that I feel sorry for you. Instead of pointing the finger at Eldon,
how about telling us what YOU did. Have you taken those post off of
AvatarOverdrive, you know the ones that Harry put up.
grace
HAPPYsamurai
2009-05-26 20:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@adelphia.net
The question then becomes are you, you? or the costumes others have
asked you to wear?
Eldon, is it possible long ago Harry asked you to wear the costume of
Avatar Basher?
Does he need you to be who you are?  Or do you need him to be who he
is?
And yes some people are very good at wearing costumes that others want
them to wear.
Desparate people are easy.
grace
the manifestations are myriad - take the RAP music industry

a genre that grew out of ghetto peotry is now all bling bluff n
bluster

and yet - why does shaun coombs "really" want to do a "pimple product"
advert

- then there's just "teen role play"

and then there's the guy in the group who modifies himself in an
attmpt to unite the group - whichh is a less critica view of Obama's
Chameleon attributes than icke's

still - you gotta hone your OWN senses for your own set of "practical
applications"

as Lincoln's bullet in the head proves - honor and integrity don't
keep you safe


and an aside - has hary created a "pension plan" or healthcare for for
SE's working masters and wizards ?

they're not renunciates you know
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